The PEOPLE of the Ruler to come.

[Maryam]

Do you not know the difference between individual and corporate judgement? The Bible makes this distinction, after all I asked for "nations" NOT "men".

Anyway, looks like you've accepted defeat, you couldn't answer my challenge eh? Don't worry I didn't find any literal references to non-Muslim nations either, and neither will anyone ever find any.

So now that we got the unecessary stuff out of the way, why don't we for a change finally talk about the nations God wants to, He wouldn't have mentioned them by name if He didn't, right? So we got, Saudi, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Libya & Sudan.

Which one should we tackle first?

[thinker]

Dear Maryam,

If memory serves me correctly, the OIC was formed as a result of a Jewish failed attempt to destroy/burn the Dome of the Rock back in September of 1969.  It has grown in size and in influence since then and has 57 member states +/- and is on its 9th leader (Professor Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu of Turkey).

Both the shia and the sunni are respresented and Pakistan recently called for reformation...but my guess is they will become more politically involed like they did recently in th Maryland peace talks trying to broker a deal between Israel and the PLO (I think it was).

And, yes, I agree with you that the "people" of the "prince" ruler refers to Islam (compatriots of the "prince" (ruler)...see my other threads.

And yes, I started a thread entitled "War Desolations", you can see the compilations there.

Take care,

[DaDad]

Dearest Maryam,

... there's no literal reference to any land outside the Middle East then there's no point in looking for a figurative reference ...

Goodnews.  It turns out that when Jesus returns, HE'll only rule and reign the historical european/asian/african regions of the world.  So we here in the western hemisphere, Australia, etc., can keep our hedonistic ways!  --  Is this what you mean, (Scripturally speaking)?

LOL
WBR,
DD

...  I asked for "nations" NOT "men". ...

Dearest Maryam,

It would seem you are parsing. I would observe that if the middle east is your criterion, then you must by defaut discount all else. Thus my previous observation stands.

WBR,
DD



... and a belated PS:

Maryam,
Certainly one could espouse that which you defend. However, it would seem that your actions contradict your own testimony.  --  "Computer" is not in the bible! 

To All,
I would equally propose that neither is: rifle, helicopter, tank, nuclear weapon, ICBM, radiation sickness, barcode, etc.   However, I would maintain that each is "depicted" in scripture, as too the prominent end-time nations including the western hemisphere.  LOL

[Maryam]

Dearest Maryam,

... there's no literal reference to any land outside the Middle East then there's no point in looking for a figurative reference ...

Goodnews.  It turns out that when Jesus returns, HE'll only rule and reign the historical european/asian/african regions of the world.  So we here in the western hemisphere, Australia, etc., can keep our hedonistic ways!  --  Is this what you mean, (Scripturally speaking)?

LOL
WBR,
DD

...  I asked for "nations" NOT "men". ...

Dearest Maryam,

It would seem you are parsing. I would observe that if the middle east is your criterion, then you must by defaut discount all else. Thus my previous observation stands.

WBR,
DD

The Middle East is the Bible's criteria for the AC's kingdom. I'm not saying that the other nations not mentioned in Scripture (who will not be part of the AC's kingdom) will get off scott free for their transgressions, just that YHWH decided not to tell us about them. Many of the details that will eventually unfold are yet to be determined, God rarely reveals all the details. Nevertheless He wants us to focus on what He HAS told us, NOT speculate about what He HASN'T. Yes it's a lot of fun to speculate about the destinies of our own countries (myopia alert!), but God wants us to deal with the nations He mentioned, FIRST!!!

... and a belated PS:

Maryam,
Certainly one could espouse that which you defend. However, it would seem that your actions contradict your own testimony.  --  "Computer" is not in the bible! 

I have no idea what you're on about, when did I ever claim that "computer" is in the Bible???

[DaDad]

Dearest Maryam

I would simply propose that a given nation (or technology) does not have to be specifically named (i.e., the United States of America, or "computer") for it to be depicted in scripture and fulfilled in history.  Thus if you allow one to be exercised (computer), then you must allow all to be exercised (U.S.).

As previously presented, the U.S. is clearly defined in scripture by depiction, and now by fulfillment. To suggest otherwise is not wise. LOL

WBR,
DD

[Maryam]

As previously presented, the U.S. is clearly defined in scripture by depiction, and now by fulfillment. To suggest otherwise is not wise. LOL

WBR,
DD

Ok, let's play it your way, present your "proof".

[DaDad]

My Dearest Maryam,

If I were to march down a path of evidence* toward the U.S. being in scripture, I would start at 2:45, which distinctly depicts FIVE world empires.  --  Can we agree to this point?


WBR,
DD



* Evidence is something that contributes to knowledge.  Proof is evidence that is sufficient to demonstrate a certainty.

[tom]

DD

If you did an "agreement" with your posts, then the impact on the site would be minimal as you have rarely added anythink of value to the understanding of people posting or reading on this board.  

If anything it would add value to this site if you removed the powdery stuff that you are proficient at, that some people use to build houses with.  At least it serves a purpose in that instance, the stuff you create does not and it has an adverse impact that should be inhibited or eradicated from view.

Now Dd a specific question for you to answer.  Can you show us how you can do that so that we can all praise God for the wonderful change that will come to pass on this board instead of the hostility that seems to come about because of your posts as what you are doing is not pretty?

Tom

[Maryam]

My Dearest Maryam,

If I were to march down a path of evidence* toward the U.S. being in scripture, I would start at 2:45, which distinctly depicts FIVE world empires.  --  Can we agree to this point?


WBR,
DD



* Evidence is something that contributes to knowledge.  Proof is evidence that is sufficient to demonstrate a certainty.

No. I don't see how Daniel 2:45 proves that the US appears in Scripture, you're gonna have to do better than that. Oh and can you tell me why, Nebuchadnezzar, who was a pagan & Babylonian had this dream? Oh wait, Daniel tells us why:

Daniel 2:29 O king, the thoughts that came to your mind in your bed are about future events; He who reveals mysteries has let you know what is to happen.  30 Not because my wisdom is greater than that of other creatures has this mystery been revealed to me, but in order that the meaning should be made known to the king, and that you may know the thoughts of your mind.

The dream and its interpretation concerns the thoughts of Nebuchadnezzar's mind alone!!! Now what could've been going through the King of BABYLON's mind? The USA, Russia, China or the UK or the future of HIS OWN kingdom???

What does the USA have to do with Babylon? NOTHING! "But US troops are currently occupying Iraq", they're occupying Iraq NOT ruling Iraq and the insurgents have managed to quell every attempt the US government has made to establish political influence in that county, so much so that your new MUSLIM president is planning to withdraw the troops. And when that happens Iraq (Babylon) will finally fall to the Arab "feet & toes", yes, ARAB, Daniel himself said it:

Daniel 2:43 And just as you saw the iron mixed (arab) with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture (arab) and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes (arab) with clay.

Yes the original Aramaic word here is "arab" and yes it means both mixture as well as the proper name for a people, and this is in fact the origin of the name Arab, as the Arabs were known as the "mixed ones" throughout antiquity.

This is an Aramaic word play which clearly implies the Arabs, and if you think I'm talking nonsense go check Daniel 5:25-28 where you'll see a similar word play with UFARSIN (divided/Persian), not to mention that Peshitta students have found plenty of these kinds of word plays in Yeshua's Aramaic sermons.

[DaDad]

My Absolute Dearest Maryam,

I believe that evidence is built toward "proof".  And you asked for proof, so I'm presenting the evidence.  If you want to arrive to a conclusion, please allow that occurrence.  However if you want to jump to a conclusion, please see "Tom".

Now if you will allow me to reference the 2:45 FIVE world empire logic, I will point the reader to the Topic:
"Which is correct: Daniel 2:40 or 2:45?", « Reply #28 on: Today at 01:06:20 PM »
http://www.prophecytalk.com/index.php?topic=5701.15

In this Topic you should find a request for a defense of a FOUR world empire. You are more than welcome to present why scripture is "wrong" if you think you can defend it.


WBR,
DD

PS Please do not be alarmed at scripture being "wrong", as there are many instances where scripture has apparent contradictions which may be explained that it is indeed "correct".

[thinker]

Greetings,

Wow, what a side show, distraction away from the thread...we were making some good progress on the subject...and then...oh yeah...I forgot...open forum...oops sorry about that...it is just that I always appreciate some good disciplined focus on a subject...I find it quite invigorating...if/when that happens...okay, so where were we Maryam?  Oh yes, we were talking about the OIC relative to the "people" of the ruler.  I added some comments and would like some feedback or additional "fodder" to reignite the thread conversation.

Thanks so much,
Take care,

[tom]

The people of the ruler to come.

Let us consider when this comes into play.

My view is that this is pointing to a time approximately 1,000 years into the future when Satan will begin to collect and deceive the people into joining him to go up against God and his saints who occupy Jerusalem and its vicinity so that He can be installed as the god of the earth.

During this present time, all of the nations and people of the earth will join in the attack on Israel and Jerusalem.

Daniel 7 and Daniel 9:24-27 supports this understanding.

Shalom

Tom

PS can we all agree that the prophecies in Daniel 2 are about the land of Babylon and those that have and take control over the land.  That the five segments of the statue are, 1. The chaddeans, 2. The Medes and the Persians, 3. The Greeks, 4. Iraq, and 5. The Coalition of the willing and the properties /characteristics of the five empires which are represented by the respective segment of the Statue is, 1. Gold, 2. Silver, 3. Bronze, 4. Iron, and 5. Iron and clay mixed together.

[DaDad]

My Dearest Thinker,

Please be aware that the "Ruler to come" must be established prior to extrapolating to the people. If you want to identify that "Ruler", please allow that discussion.  However, if your doctrine has already made that determination independent of the evidence, then why have a discussion?

WBR,
DD

[Teleiosis]

Chaddeans ???; Medes/Persia; Greece; IRAQ ???; Coalition - ????? oh my...

No we are not all in agreement that Daniel 2 is about who rules Babylon.
I think it is about who controls Israel which has been and will be God's focus and perspective from (King of the North; King of the South; King of the East) from whch to view end-time prophecy.

In that respect, since Nebuchadnezzar was plainly told HE was the head, the statue starts off with the Babylonians of his time.

It moves forward to the Medes/Persians; Greeks who supplanted them; and finally Rome which conquered Greece.

In the latter times, the Roman world, of which we are a part being (founded upon its structure, culture, military, economics and politics; i.e. Classical "Western" Culture) we will be a divided Kingdom with the introduction of another people unlike us who do not mix.  They are not even a metal; but common clay.  However, it is still the Kingdom of the North, of which we are a part too, or soon will be; which is the geographic perspective for the anti-Christ.  This is the same iron Kingdom as the fourth terrible beast is described as an iron beast.  The fourth terrible beast is the final Kingdom of Rome, and it is this final rendition of the fourth Kingdom which is smashed by Jesus finally at Armaggedon.

The ruler who will come, and there is a specific anti-Christ, can be identified by the near-term prophecy in Daniel 9:26.

That prophecy, which preceded Christ's prophecy about the Temple as well, lets us identify the origin of the ruler who will come by the people who destroyed the city and the sanctuary and that was the Romans in A.D. 70.

Mark

[DaDad]

To All,

OK, now that we all agree ...


LOL,
DD